Talk:15 (software engineer)

I've removed information about this developer's degree(s) and Y combinator startup taken from here . The information is unreliable - we only have their word for it and it cannot be verified. The thesis, whatever it is, is not a Ph.D. thesis, as they say there that they decided not to pursue a Ph.D. But checking the theses at Dspace@MIT, there is only one master's thesis that matches this description, but that was completed in 2012, so the dates are wrong (and that person went on to gain a Ph.D.) No other thesis matches, and even similar ones don't match the dates. Neither can I find an MIT student from this time who joint started a Y-combinator startup in 2019.

But, of course, we have a bit of a dilemma here. The article is about someone who is using a pseudonym to be anonymous. The problem with that is he probably doesn't want to be verified from his profile information. It is therefore quite possible that the information is deliberately false. He certainly doesn't want it to be verified, since that will out him. We can respect that decision. That is fine. But what we can't do is place information about him in an encyclopaedic article when the only source we have is from himself, and where there is reasonable doubt that even this is true.

I note as I write this, I was instantly reverted, despite saying I would post here. Note that per WP:ONUS, The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on editors seeking to include disputed content. This is disputed content. I don't believe that 15 has written a thesis on quantum information and pseudo-telepathy in non-local game theory. It is possible he wrote an undergraduate dissertation on the subject, but that would not really be WP:DUE. We don't really know what his degree or degrees are in. Unless and until there is consensus to include this content, it stays out. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:50, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

WP:BLPSELFPUB explicitly allows using a subject’s personal website for biographical information, subject to its stated conditions, which here they are clearly met. WP:PRIMARY similarly permits straightforward, descriptive statements of facts. I can give a huge list of Wikipedia articles that do this, but for space, I'll only mention Nicholas Carlini, Harry R. Lewis, Ronald Fedkiw, SethBling, and Terry A. Davis are GAs that regularly use primary sources for education and career details. See WP:PRIMARYNOTBAD and WP:SELFSOURCE.

Your search on DSpace also doesn't establish anything, which is the same mistake that a previous editor (now a blocked sockpuppet), User:Eritr, has made. MIT Libraries explicitly states Not all departments send bachelor's theses to the MIT Libraries., and MIT Physics explicitly calls undergraduate work a thesis: This option—which includes three terms of quantum mechanics, 36 units of laboratory experience, and a thesis. I'm also not sure how you were able to conduct this search: Neither can I find an MIT student from this time who joint started a Y-combinator startup in 2019. There doesn't seem to be a public repository of this information, from what I could search. I see no reason to reject it per that basis. I support retaining the content per WP:BLPSELFPUB and WP:PRIMARY, and propose restoring it for the reasons above. Silvers Rayleigh (talk) 21:05, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

BLPSELFPUB includes proviso 4: there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity. I have raised a doubt. I am not convinced this information is true. If the developer doesn't want to be identified, it is in his or her interests to mislead.

As for there being no such thesis on DSpace, I made no mistake. I explicitly said: It is possible he wrote an undergraduate dissertation on the subject, but that would not really be WP:DUE. What was in the article made this look like a PhD thesis, but it is not that. It is not due for a mention, and if all he has is a S.B. (that is, a bachelors degree) in computer science (or similar), without any research output, then he is not actually a computer scientist, he's just a software engineer. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:24, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

It is not due for a mention, and if all he has is a S.B. (that is, a bachelors degree) in computer science (or similar), without any research output, then he is not actually a computer scientist, he's just a software engineer. I strongly disagree. If we apply your logic consistently, Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web, isn't a computer scientist; he's just a software engineer. Neither is Robin Milner, the winner of the 1991 Turing Award, or Nick Frosst, co-founder of Cohere. If someone said "Tim Berners-Lee isn't a real computer scientist because he only has a bachelor's degree" to a room of computer scientists, it would be met with a lot of ridicule. Silvers Rayleigh (talk) 21:38, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

• Tim Berners-Lee publications and more
• Robin Milner publications

You see the difference? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:45, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

Okay, what about Nick Frosst?

Besides, the definition of "computer scientist", per Wikipedia, is one who specializes in the academic study of computer science and technology, full stop. This says nothing about any degree requirements or publication requirements, simply that they specialize in the study of computer science, which is pretty obviously true for both Frosst and 15. Silvers Rayleigh (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

• Nick Frosst publications.

In that definition, you notice two important words: "specialise" and "academic". To be an academic specialist, you are going to have to publish. In any case, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia pages. Anyone can edit them. They are user generated content. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:00, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

Again, I strongly disagree. Let's go with Cambridge Dictionary, then: The title computer scientist can be applied to a wide range of computer professionals who work as theorists, researchers, or inventors. I very much doubt any computer scientist would object to calling the inventor of 15.ai a computer scientist. Silvers Rayleigh (talk) 22:06, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

If he published... otherwise he's just a developer. That hypothetical room of computer scientists above? I've been in that room. Often. Indeed, I've been in that room with Tim Berners-Lee. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:14, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

We'll just agree to disagree. I've said my piece, we'll see what other editors think. Silvers Rayleigh (talk) 22:21, 4 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

Having to deal with an egregious BLP violator below, the re-inclusion of those sentences per WP:BLPSELFPUB appears defensible. I find no reason to believe the primary-sourced information is intentionally misleading or undue. Madeleine (talk) 20:25, 8 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure what the disruptive IP has to do with it. The fact is, this is unverifiable and from a WP:SPS. We don't even know what kind of a degree is being talked about. And there is evidence that it is misleading, as following the clues does not yield any verification. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:32, 8 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

Good point. I'm not convinced the evidence is purposely misleading, but because the information is effectively unverifiable until better sources are found, simply not including it for now is reasonable. Wikipedia has no due date, after all. Madeleine (talk) 02:15, 9 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

Clarifying: I do not object to describing the subject as a computer scientist. Madeleine (talk) 02:21, 9 November 2026 (UTC)Reply

His undergraduate research focused on minimizing the amount of recorded speech needed to reproduce a voice. is sourced to The Guardian, Nigeria, which says:

In 2016, “15” was a first-year undergraduate student at MIT captivated by the possibilities of synthetic speech. The AI world was changing fast: DeepMind’s WaveNet had provided a glimpse of what was possible in advanced voice modelling, while other researchers were just beginning to explore text-to-speech systems that needed only a fraction of the usual data. In this time period, reducing the amount of required training audio without sacrificing quality became a critical hurdle for researchers in the field. As “15” refined new ways to drastically reduce the amount of audio required to generate believable speech, the idea emerged of pursuing this research further in his future PhD dissertation.

I believe the article contains errors, and also our precis adds to that. Firstly, I believe it is likely that the page subject actually came to MIT in 2016 as a masters student and completed his first degree elsewhere. Note that 2016-2019 is not enough time to complete a bachelors degree and a masters degree, so either he only has a bachelors degree or he was there for a masters degree.

A second issue is that I believe his research was likely specifically focussed on the use of emojis to determine emotion in speech. Although this, and his other interests, clearly allowed him to minimise recorded speech required to reproduce a voice, that was not the focus of his research, and I don't think the Guardian article says it was the focus.

We have a quandry now, though. Because look, we are saying this anonymous developer is notable, and we want to write about his background. We can't do that and keep him anonymous. If we get the information right in the article, we will out him. I know this has just been through a merge discussion and was not merged, but are we really going to do this? I suspect removing words like "undergraduate" and other unverifiable specific detail might be the best we can do for him here. Or else retry the merge. I don't think we should have cursed him with this article. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:14, 12 November 2026 (UTC)Reply