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RfC on inclusion of The Hooded Man in See Also section

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Latest comment: 6 months ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Should the See Also section of this article link to The Hooded Man, published by 60 Minutes II in a previous story? A broader discussion of the section occurs above in #See also section. Einsof (talk) 13:56, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

  • Support (as nominator): Sources explicitly compared 60 Minutes's 2025 "Inside CECOT" story to 60 Minutes II's 2004 story "Abuse At Abu Ghraib", of which the most enduring visual product was the Hooded Man photograph. (As an aside, the Abu Ghraib story was also the subject of government censorship, as detailed in the photograph's article.) This comparison is written in the article and links to prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib; however, the article does not link to or mention The Hooded Man explicitly, and thus is a candidate for inclusion in the See Also section. Einsof (talk) 14:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply
    Support per above, combined with the reasoning I provided in earlier discussions on this topic. Those opposing inclusion have given little formal reasoning to support their position. They've pointed to policies including WP:POINTy, WP:NPOV, and WP:UNDUE as having been violated, but provide little to no explanation of what the violation actually is. At this point half of what's been disputed has literally been discussed in the sources we're using, which makes it harder and harder for me to believe that we're giving undue weight to something that's already necessarily intended to be skewed away from the topic in one way or another.
    The supposedly blatant violations that they claim exist have no real validity to them if they can't point to what insinuation or correlation is being made that upsets NPOV, which pages in particular create a WP:COATRACK (and why), or why these particular pages are being lent undue weight when the connection between them and the subject has already been established by the exact sources we consult. To some extent, it feels as though criticism of this section has amounted to WP:Policy shopping, which represents the same form of WP:BIAS that we've supposedly perpetuated.
    CSGinger14 (talk) 19:24, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

GA review

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Latest comment: 5 months ago18 comments3 people in discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Inside CECOT/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: CSGinger14 (talk · contribs) 07:59, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Reviewer: RandFreeman (talk · contribs) 21:26, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Reviewing this as part of my pledge at Talk:The Marion Star/GA1. My review should be up within seven days. Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 21:26, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Remarks

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The first thing I have noticed is that, though the article is mostly well-written, it has some loaded language, weasel wording and phrasing that could be less verbose or redundant. I suggest some rewordings below; the original text is plain and my suggestions are green.

  1. Via interviews with former detainees and via photographic evidence, the segment describes systematic torture at the facility, independently corroborating earlier conclusions by Human Rights Watch, according to the reports by the survivors ("detainees") and journalists which described "El Salvador's CECOT" as a "living nightmare" and a "hellscape" with features typical of a dystopian horror film due to the extreme conditions and high-tech surveillance.
    The segment includes photographic evidence of, and interviews with former detainees about, systematic torture at the facility, corroborating earlier reports by Human Rights Watch. Journalists and former detainees have described CECOT as having severe living conditions and heavy, high-tech surveillance.
  2. Both pundits and sources of note have questioned whether, or asserted that Weiss's actions represent an effort by CBS to quiet negative commentary on the administration to guarantee a favorable outcome in Paramount Skydance's efforts to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery, considering the extent to which that may represent an abandonment of CBS News' commitment to journalistic integrity.
    Pundits and journalists have theorized that Weiss pulled the segment to suppress CBS's criticism of the Trump administration and guarantee a favorable outcome in Paramount Skydance's efforts to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery. [The authors of "sources of note" are, by and large, journalists.]
  3. Many employees at CBS were quick to lend their support to Alfonsi.
    Many CBS employees supported Alfonsi.
  4. Another detainee described conditions in the prison in stark terms, noting that "There was blood everywhere, screams, people crying, people who couldn't take it and were urinating and vomiting on themselves."
    Another detainee recounted that "There was blood everywhere, screams, people crying, people who couldn't take it and were urinating and vomiting on themselves." [This description, by itself, is horrific, so the phrase "stark terms" is redundant.]
  5. Alfonsi explained that the story was "factually correct" and had been "screened five times and cleared by both CBS attorneys and Standards and Practices."
    Alfonsi asserted that the story was "factually correct" and had been "screened five times and cleared by both CBS attorneys and Standards and Practices." [This is from Alfonsi's point of view.]
  6. Formatting nitpick: I feel that "progressive" in Weiss met with major backlash from numerous journalists, progressive groups, and public officials... should be wikilinked to Progressivism in the United States, to avoid making "progressive" seem like it is being used as a compliment.
  7. Weiss's decision attracted widespread condemnation, including by American legislators and journalists. Weiss's actions have conversely been defended by conservative commentators both within and outside the Trump administration.
    Weiss's decision to pull the segment was condemned by many American legislators and journalists, but has been defended by conservative commentators both within and outside the Trump administration.
  8. Stephen Miller called for CBS to fire all of the producers who "engaged in this revolt" against Weiss for pulling the segment, which he described as "another pathetic 60 Minutes hatchet job". Regarding the deportees imprisoned at CECOT, he stated, "They know that these are monsters, who got exactly what they deserved." He accosted 60 Minutes staff, criticizing its producers who he claimed were "living in comfort and security in their west end condos trying to make us feel sympathetic for these monsters." Little additional commentary has been reported as having come from the Trump administration in the aftermath of the story's release.
    Stephen Miller called for CBS to fire all of the producers who "engaged in this revolt" against Weiss for pulling the segment, which he described as "another pathetic 60 Minutes hatchet job". He stated that the producers of 60 Minutes “know [the deportees imprisoned at CECOT] are monsters, who got exactly what they deserved" and were "living in comfort and security in their west end condos trying to make us feel sympathetic for these monsters." Little additional commentary has been reported as having come from the Trump administration in the aftermath of the story's release.
Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 01:21, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
The article is stable; the last edit was made by you in April, there have been no recent edit wars and, as far as I can tell, the article is not currently the subject of any disputes.
The two images on the article are relevant (an image of the segment for visual identification of the media, and an image of CECOT itself). The image of the segment is fair use, and the image of CECOT is a screengrab from a video licensed under CC-BY. Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 01:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
Almost all the sources are reliable, and the only ones on generally unreliable websites are used appropriately as primary sources or as self-published works by subject-matter experts (e.g. Robert Reich). Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 03:57, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
There is a [citation needed] after the first paragraph of section Paramount Skydance and CBS, and immediately following reference 12. I checked reference 12, which does not fully corroborate the statement: it states that Colbert's show was cancelled, but not that he criticised the settlement. Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 03:26, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
The Synopsis section is rather short and incoherent. Most of the good synopses I've read are arranged according to the chronology of the film/episode/book in question, and have a moderately detailed description of its contents (see Freedom_for_the_Thought_That_We_Hate#Contents and Mind_Meld#Contents for examples of what I mean). If you are able to find and watch Inside CECOT in full, you can write up a summary of the segment using the segment itself as a primary source. (If you cannot find it, I can email you a copy if you would like.) Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 05:07, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
Hi @RandFreeman. Thanks so much for taking on this review. Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. I've taken a look at your comments and am about to publish some changes in their regard. It may take me a little while to work through others. I agree with most all of your suggestions, and will happily provide an explanation if you request it in cases where relevant revisions deviate from them. Moreover, I'll try to go watch the segment again and see if I can expand the synopsis. You have my appreciation for making the comments as thorough as you did, as it makes the task of getting this article up to standard far easier. Hope you're well, and I'll look forward to your reply.
All the best,
CSGinger14 (talk) 04:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
@CSGinger14: in re your edit summary here, I think "former detainees" is a more appropriate term in this context than "survivors" because using the latter implies that it is our assessment, as Wikipedia editors, that CECOT is so horrific that those who left it should be denoted as "survivors" and not merely as former detainees. A reader can infer from the article that the former detainees are survivors of torture, because if they had died we would not be hearing their stories; saying that ourselves is editorialising. The only instances of the word "survivor" I have read, where I did not get a sense that its use was a social or political statement, were in relation to natural disasters, mass killings, terrorist attacks, genocides and other incidents where most victims actually died or were expected to die. Most news sources also do not use "survivors" for former CECOT detainees; this BBC article uses "Venezuelans released from Cecot", for example, and this Guardian article calls an individual who was released from CECOT a "former detainee". Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 20:08, 16 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
Agreed. "Survivor" is a designation that may also be contradicted by future developments, to wit: if a former detainee later dies from a condition that is determined to have been caused or aggravated by incarceration in CECOT, that determination may have implications for legal culpability (e.g., in a Nuremberg-like trial), and then it may no longer make sense to speak of the "survivor". For what it's worth, even some Auschwitz survivors refer to themselves as having been inmates or prisoners (e.g., Five Chimneys). Einsof (talk) 02:35, 17 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
@RandFreeman Your reasoning here makes sense. Will make that change shortly. I think that change was made at the same time that the "dystopian horror film" part was added, by the same editor, and was a bit skeptical of it for many of the same reasons you listed above, but realized that ultimately, they are technically survivors of torture, so wanted to know what others thoughts were before making a final determination.
As regards your note on No. 5 of the source spot-check, I should note that almost all of the sources I consulted concerning internal deliberation after the episode's first (erroneous) airing made use of Weiss's exact phrasing that the story did not "advance the ball" in a meaningful way. If my memory serves me correctly, that line is about as close to the description those sources gave as it could be. I'll try something out, though, and will wait to see what you think of it. Unfortunately it's been an incredibly busy last few days, so I haven't had a chance to go look at the episode again, but will do so as soon as I can get access. I might end up taking you up on your earlier offer if I can't easily find a version online, though I suspect it could be found at 60 Minutes website now too. Hope all is well, and my thanks for your additional input.
All the best,
CSGinger14 (talk) 07:03, 17 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
@RandFreeman Wondering if the rough version of the synopsis that I've just written is more along the lines of what you were hoping to see.
CSGinger14 (talk) 05:13, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
Yes, it reads much better. Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 05:14, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
Any thoughts on what else may be needed to get everything up to standard? ​
CSGinger14 (talk) 05:18, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
The only outstanding issue I see is the [citation needed]. Everything else looks good. Considering that most sources our consensus holds reliable give many reasons to condemn Weiss's actions and few to approve them, the article is about as neutral as it can be, and there is an adequate amount of information on Weiss's reasons and justifications for pulling the segment.
Nitpicking this paragraph in §Aftermath and internal deliberation: "Weiss had reportedly questioned the use of the word "migrants" to describe the Venezuelan deportees, concentrating on the fact that they were present in the country illegally. CBS News publicly announced the segment was postponed only three hours before the anticipated broadcast."
In their current location, these two sentences read like a bit of a non-sequitur from the preceding paragraphs. I would merge "CBS News publicly announced the segment was postponed only three hours before the anticipated broadcast" into the first sentence of §Broadcast postponement, to create On the afternoon of December 21, 2025, three hours prior to the anticipated airing of the episode, CBS News announced the CECOT segment had been pulled from the episode, and would air at a later date, without disclosing a reason.
"Weiss had reportedly questioned the use of the word 'migrants' to describe the Venezuelan deportees, concentrating on the fact that they were present in the country illegally" could be moved to the end of the paragraph immediately preceding it. Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 05:56, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
​ Thoughts?
CSGinger14 (talk) 07:39, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
Everything looks good. All the criteria have been met, so I will pass. Rand Freeman talk ⬩ stalk 07:42, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Source spotchecks

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Source numbers as of this revision.
1: OK for all four times it is cited
5: Mostly OK, but the 3rd instance/the first sentence of subsection "Aftermath and internal deliberation" is a bit too close for comfort. I would rephrase it to In a meeting the following morning, Weiss said that the report failed to provide any information that had not been previously published by other outlets and "was not ready" for publication.
15: OK
20: OK
25: OK
30: OK
35: OK
40: OK
45: OK
50: OK

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Restoration of Authoritarianism during the Trump presidencies sidebar

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Latest comment: 11 days ago15 comments5 people in discussion

After the recent removal, I have restored the template and the link to the navbar. The edit summary used to justify the removal consisted of one word, "irrelevant", which is defined as "not connected with or relevant". On the contrary, this article clearly discusses the backlash Weiss faced by professionals in their relevant field "who deemed the cancellation" of the show "unjustified, and to have been carried out at the behest of the Trump administration." According to legal scholar, Kim Lane Scheppele, whose area of expertise is authoritarian regimes in the third wave of autocratization, modern autocrats work towards harnessing the media as an echo chamber. Scheppele herself created a 10-step path to autocratization of which control of the media is step 7. Schepplele built upon the work of political scientist Javier Corrales on this point, with Corrales detailing the use of media bias to favor the ruling party in power. In this example, the U.S. government sought to prevent independent media from publishing criticism of their work. Corrales' most relevant point on this issue is that private media companies on the path to authoritarianism engage in self-censorship or refuse to cover certain political issues. This is exactly what happened here. Furthermore, citation 70, which is currently used in this article, is titled "The 60 Minutes Scandal Is What Creeping Authoritarianism Looks Like", while the rest of the article goes into great detail as to what a media company looks like when an authoritarian takes control. Viriditas (talk) 10:05, 23 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

This is a clear case of WP:SYNTH. Neither Kim Lane Scheppele nor Javier Corrales are writing about this specific 60 Minutes segment or Bari Weiss's editorial choices. An editor taking their broad academic frameworks on autocratization and media capture and deciding that this controversy "fits the model" might make for an interesting essay, but it's textbook synthesis.
As for the sourcing in the article itself, citation 70 is an opinion column in Jacobin". Beyond its headline, the piece is one partisan commentary among many, and WP:HEADLINE applies here. The section where it's cited and where this sidebar was attached covers a divided range of reactions from NGOs and media observers—some criticizing Weiss over press freedom concerns, others defending the decision. Conflating an editorial delay and dispute with state-enforced media censorship is an opinion, not an undisputed fact. Slapping a permanent authoritarianism sidebar on that section takes a complex media controversy with competing viewpoints and forces a single, non-neutral conclusion in Wikipedia's voice, directly violating WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT.
Furthermore, this fails WP:NAVBOX. The subject of the sidebar isn't discussed in this article, nor does the main authoritarianism article even mention "Inside CECOT". These articles aren't even loosely related, let alone the tightly related standard for sidebars. Bookaddictt (talk) 08:26, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
One has to examine which of these commentaries have actually made a pronouncement on democratic backsliding. As far as I can tell, the National Review article doesn't; it just defends the cancellation on narrow grounds. The Chait and Burgis articles seem to be in the affirmative. As for Becket Adams, it seems the consensus at WP:RSP is that Hill "Contributor" pieces aren't actually edited and must be treated as self-published sources, which is not suitable here. I will remove it presently, along with Ackerman (which is also clearly self-published). Einsof (talk) 15:20, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Bookaddict, "synth" has a specific meaning and use on Wikipedia. What I wrote isn’t “synth” of any kind, it is the higher level context of how this subject fits into authoritarianism and why it is discussed as an authoritarian act. It only becomes synth if I try to add this higher level understanding into the article itself, which was not the intent or the context of my comment. Please use Wikipedia terms that only apply to their specific context. I explained how this subject fits into the larger context of authoritarianism because you called it "irrelevant" and appeared genuinely confused about a well known subject whose relevance is discussed in the literature in various ways. It does not cross the barrier of "synth" when it is not a discussion about adding content but rather understanding it. Viriditas (talk) 16:50, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Bookaddict, to further address your "synth" allegation, and put an end to it entirely, Scheppele and Corrales' colleagues wrote about "Inside CECOT" and its removal in the context of authoritarianism by the Trump admin here on page 12: Levitsky, Steven; Way, Lucan A. (October 2026). "Competitive Authoritarianism in America". Journal of Democracy. 37 (4). Johns Hopkins University Press: 5–25. doi:10.1353/jod.2026.a1001893. Quote follows:
The United States descended into soft competitive authoritarianism during Donald Trump's second presidency. Regime change occurred with striking speed [...] Trump also attacked the media, weaponizing the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to an unprecedented degree [...] Although an independent judiciary and a well-endowed opposition make it harder to undermine competition in the United States, the Trump administration's weaponization of state institutions appears to have at least modestly tilted the playing field. For one, the administration's abuse of power reshaped the media landscape. Whether it was to avoid government retribution or to secure government contracts or favorable regulatory decisions, several media companies altered their programming, shifted their editorial lines, or engaged in self-censorship during the second Trump presidency [...] As one veteran television journalist put it, major media companies "have ratcheted back. They've toned rhetoric down . . . because all of these companies can get harassed by the government and Trump has proven that he will use government to punish companies."
The most far-reaching transformation occurred at CBS, which was owned by Paramount. In early 2025, as it was seeking FCC approval of a merger with another media-production company, Skydance, Paramount settled President Trump’s flimsy lawsuit against CBS over the editing of an interview with his 2024 presidential rival, Kamala Harris, canceled Stephen Colbert's late-night talk show, and imposed tighter editorial controls on CBS's flagship news program, 60 Minutes. The FCC approved Skydance's acquisition of Paramount in July 2025, giving the Ellison family, who have been large Trump donors, control over CBS.
Skydance, now seeking government approval of its acquisition of Warner Bros. Discovery, overhauled the CBS news division, softening its criticism of the administration. In December 2025, for example, CBS abruptly pulled a 60 Minutes segment on the conditions in El Salvador's Terrorism Confinement Center, or CECOT, where the U.S. government had sent more than two-hundred deportees in March of that year. According to longtime 60 Minutes journalist Scott Pelley, "There was a thumb on the scale for the president's version of events." Prior to the airing of a segment on the ICE killings in Minneapolis, for example, Pelley claims that new CBS News's editor-in-chief, Bari Weiss, pressured him to make the protesters "look more violent" and to describe Renee Good's car as driving toward the ICE officer who killed her. In mid-2026, the Justice Department approved the Paramount–Warner Bros. Discovery merger, which, if finalized, will bring the cable news channel CNN under Ellison family control.
Although the sheer size and wealth of the U.S. media market make it harder to capture the private media than in Hungary and other competitive authoritarian cases, the Trump administration's media-packing efforts were nevertheless consequential. As FCC chair Brendan Carr observed, "President Trump is fundamentally reshaping the media landscape. . . . For years, government officials just allowed [the legacy television networks] . . . to dictate the political narrative. And he has fundamentally changed the game." Carr went further in a speech at the March 2026 Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC):
Look at the results so far. PBS, defunded. NPR, defunded. Joy Reid, gone from MSNBC. Sleepy-eyes Chuck Todd, gone. Jim Acosta, gone. John Dickerson, gone. Stephen Colbert is leaving. CBS is under new ownership, and soon enough, CNN is going to have new ownership as well. . . . So, we're not at the point yet where we’re raising the "mission accomplished" flag, but President Trump is taking on the fake news media, and President Trump is winning.
End quote. Viriditas (talk) 17:36, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Bookaddict, I notice you attempted to summarize and give equal weight to the dispute as a kind of false balance. I want to make it clear that I strongly disagree with this. You wrote, “some criticizing Weiss over press freedom concerns, others defending the decision”, as if there is a kind of balance in the coverage and there is not a consensus in the press community on this issue. I think this comment of yours shows a kind of strong bias and intentional distortion of the topic coverage. Your underlying argument is that viewing this manipulation of the media as authoritarianism is only an opinion, and it is not widely shared. This is not just wrong on your part, but is easily refuted by citing every relevant source in journalism the world over. Furthermore, you would have us seriously believe that it is naturally and reasonably “balanced” out by Trump administration defenders and stenographers. Viriditas (talk) 17:06, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
This is a lot to get involved in at this exact moment, but I will say that there's widespread reference across both neutral and opinion-based sources here that this represents some measure of authoritarian action. Ostensible strong-arming / collusion with an oligarchic (in this case meaning deeply uncompetitive) media ecosystem isn't something you typically see in a free society.
CSGinger14 (talk) 21:05, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Agreed. I added a new journal article that was just published up above. Are you interested in adding it? Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Although there may be widespread reference to that, is it in the article? Will someone who lands here as a result of following links in the template know why this is included in the series on Trump's authoritarianism? I don't see it. The page doesn't even mention authoritarianism. If I'm supposed to connect the dots from the title of the SIDEBAR, then that is WP:SYNTH. If this subject is tightly integrated with Trumps' authoritarianism, I think it needs to explain that in the prose, with sources. If it isn't, then we shouldn't include it in the collation of a WP:SIDEBAR. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:39, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
It is in the article, but it can be made more explicit for those who may not be familiar with the topic of authoritarianism and media control, which this topic fits into like a hand in a glove. Viriditas (talk) 19:43, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Probably would be a good idea, to deal with the SYNTH concern. Sometimes, famously, the hand does not fit the glove. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:06, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Added. Viriditas (talk) 21:48, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
The core question is navigational function. Does the main article on Trump-era authoritarianism discuss Inside CECOT? No. Does this article frame itself around that topic? No. Placing a prominent vertical sidebar here offers readers a navbox whose subject isn't even treated in the text. If editors feel the Levitsky & Way paper is due weight for this article, it can be cited as an attributed viewpoint in the text.
Describing the documented editorial dispute between Alfonsi and Weiss—including Weiss's on-the-record statements regarding reporting standards and the segment's subsequent broadcast with administration comments—is basic compliance with WP:DUE. Labeling any coverage of internal editorial deliberation as "false balance" ignores the nature of the dispute - this isn't about whether one "side" should get more or less coverage in the article, it's whether the article itself should take a position on a contested political framing. One line in a 20-page paper that mentions this subject doesn't change that, and using it in that way would clearly violate WP:NPOV, as well as WP:SIDEBAR. Bookaddictt (talk) 12:22, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Does this article frame itself around [Trump-era authoritarianism] ...Yes...? Einsof (talk) 15:02, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
…whether the article itself should take a position on a contested political framing. It’s not contested outside of the Trump admin. "Surveys of U.S. political scientists conducted after Trump returned to office have found a consensus that the United States is transitioning towards illiberal democracy and competitive authoritarianism." Viriditas (talk) 17:46, 28 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
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