Talk:Pope Francis

The Vatican News Agency says that he's the 265th, while Reuters says he's the 266th. Which one should we go with? -Mh7kJ (talk) 20:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

read the press release: 265th successor... -> 266th. --Eptalon (talk) 20:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Ah, so it is, I'm an idiot. Thanks. -Mh7kJ (talk) 20:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Except for Benedict XVI and Francis, The first paragraphs of all our articles about the popes follow the Catholic Encyclopedia list here -- compare Popes in sequence at Catholic Hierarchy, which is cited in each article.

An ordinal number problem develops in 752 when Pope Stephen II died after election but before being consecrated. According to Catholic Encyclopedia, the way this is handled in ENWP may not be best -- see

• en:Pope Stephen I (died 257), Bishop of Rome from 254–257
• en:Pope-elect Stephen (died 772) → Pope Stephen II?
• en:Pope Stephen II (720–772), pope from 768–772 → Pope Stephen (II) III?
• en:Pope Stephen III (720–772), pope from 768–772 → Pope Stephen (III) IV?
• en:Pope Stephen IV (died 817), pope from 816–817 → Pope Stephen (IV) V?
• en:Pope Stephen V (died 891), pope from 885–891 → Pope Stephen (V) VI?
• en:Pope Stephen VI (died 897), pope from 896–897 → Pope Stephen (VI) VII?
• en:Pope Stephen VII (died 931), pope from 929–931 → Pope Stephen (VII) VIII?
• en:Pope Stephen VIII (died 942), German, pope from 939–942 → Pope Stephen (VIII) IX?
• en:Pope Stephen IX (c. 1020–1058), pope from 1057–1058 → Pope Stephen (IX) X?

After the first Stephen died in 752, the next pope took the same name. This pope is known as either Stephen II or Stephen III. In other words, according to Catholic Encyclopedia

• There have been 267 men who were elected pope
• Until March 19, there will have been 264 men who have been consecrated as pope. This is because Urban VII (September 15–27, 1590) died before his consecration.

Does this explanation help clarify what needs to be in the 1st paragraph of this article? In my opinion, the note in 1st paragraph of en:Pope Benedict XVI is not helpful, not good enough in explaining and resolving the ordinal numbering problem.

This issue is not simple; but there we have it. --Jinki (talk) 15:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

FYI -- Wikidata:Pope Francis mentions the 266th pope. A quick Google search does not make this issue clearer. The search results are inconsistent with what is published in the Catholic Encyclopedia

• "266th pope" = 380,000 hits
• "267th pope" = 3,480 hits

What should be done? How does this effect the ordinal numbers in other articles about popes? --Jinki (talk) 19:25, 15 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

The following facts still need backup:

• The Jesuits say he holds a master in chemistry, presumably from the Univ. of Buenos Aires, see http://www.jesuit.org/2013/03/13/jesuit-argentine-cardinal-jesuit-bergoglio-elected-pope-takes-name-francis-i/ (listed as ref "SJCG" in the article); The official bio of the vatican speaks about him having been edudcated as "chemical technician" (before his studies of Philosophy, and Theology), see http://www.news.va/en/news/biography-who-is-jorge-mario-bergoglio
• There is talk that he completed a PhD/Doctorate in Germany; but German Wikipedia is discussing about not being able to find it. Given that he was teaching at a university, him holding a PhD is rather likely. Needs more research.

• There has been talk about him having a bad relationship with the current president of Argentina (Fernández de Kirchner); and about him having had an ambivalent role in the time of military rule in Argentina. Needs more research.

Just thoughts, if any of you run out of ideas in what direction to extend the article.--Eptalon (talk) 10:49, 14 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Follow-up ... --Jinki (talk) 15:23, 17 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

1. Re: Pope Francis' doctorate, see <:ref>Hans, Barbara. "The Surprise Pope: Humble and Ascetic with a Murky Past," SpiegelOnline (Germanhy). 13 March 2013; excerpt, "Sankt Georgen Graduate School of Philosophy and Theology, which is located in Frankfurt"; retrieved 2013-3-17.</ref><:ref>"News: Pope Francis". Philosophisch-Theologische Hochschule Sankt Georgen Frankfurt am Main. Retrieved 2013-03-17. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)</ref><:ref>Johnson, M. Alex. "Pope Francis breaks another barrier as first Jesuit pontiff," NBCNews. 13 March 2013; excerpt, "Bergoglio earned a doctorate in theology in Freiburg, Germany. He returned to Argentina and was a theology instructor at and later rector of the Philosophical and Theological Faculty of San Miguel in Buenos Aires"; retrieved 2013-2-17</ref>
2. Re: Cardinal Bergoglio's relations with Pres. Kirchner, see <:ref>Johnson, M. Alex. "Pope Francis breaks another barrier as first Jesuit pontiff," NBCNews. 13 March 2013; excerpt, "The new pope has been a vocal opponent of abortion and especially of same-sex marriage .... That position drew a rebuke from Argentine President Cristina Fernandez, who called Bergoglio a relic of 'medieval times and the Inquisition'"; retrieved 2013-2-17</ref>
3. Re: Cardinal Bergoglio in the "Dirty War", see <:ref>Vincent, Isabel and Melissa Klean. "Victims of Argentina's 'Dirty War' of the late 1970s blast Pope's ‘deadly’ silence," New York Post. March 17, 2013; "Meet the new pope: Francis is humble leader who takes the bus to work," NBCNews. 17 March 2013; excerpt, "Argentina was ruled in the late 1970s by a brutal military dictatorship .... Church leaders backed the dictatorship publicly, and Bergoglio discouraged priests from political activism. Two of his Jesuit priests who followed the liberation theology movement were kidnapped from the slums by the military regime in 1976. Bergoglio personally appealed to the dictator, Jorge Videla, and had them freed. One of the priests later accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads in the first place"; retrieved 2013-3-17.</ref>

Can someone expand this article some so it is more updated and longer as the English Wikipedia article of Pope Francis Pope Francis as alot of good information on him but most of that information isn't in here. Which it could easily be after it is finished simplifying. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 15:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

I moved over (and hopefully simplified) two sections about his "teachings"/"views". They probably need more simplification, help appreciated. --Eptalon (talk) 13:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

I know that we had the 2023 one. However, I believe that we should change the picture back to 2021 now that he has died. LOWTAPERFADEYEAH (talk) 12:45, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

or maybe this one: File:Pope Francis in March 2013.jpg LOWTAPERFADEYEAH (talk) 12:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hello all, on the day of his death, April 21 2025 (Easter Monday), this page received more than 14.000 hits (which is staggering for SEWP). I think we still need a place to put reactions ot his death. Francis tried to start a dialogue with other religious leaders; in that context it would be good to put the reactions, as they also came from non-Christians. The simple question is where to put them? Eptalon (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hello wikipedians, is this a notable section? LOWTAPERFADEYEAH (talk) 00:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't think it should be a section by itself, but maybe I don't understand the importance of this meeting, so will wait to hear others as well- although I was just thinking the same think to myself (why does this meeting have its own section?) Julipero (talk) 03:54, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply